Against the Grain: How Disagreement Creates Fresh Perspectives
Join Molly Baker, founder of Indie Consulting, and Adam Frazier, as they discuss the power of debate in shaping stronger teams and diverse points of view. Additionally, they dive into the intersection of precise measurement and big-picture thinking, and how AI is transforming the consumer data space. If you’re interested in learning more about how to lead in a world that won’t sit still, this episode is for you. And as always, tune in for some spicy hot takes!
MB (Molly Baker): So without telling us who you are, what are you thinking about professionally today?
AF (Adam Frazier): My job is to build capabilities and really facilitate the success of marketing through data. That includes finding the right audiences, using CRM to connect with them, measuring effectiveness, and doing it all ethically. At the heart of my work is audience science and data strategy. It’s nerdy, but fun.
MB: Brag about yourself. What are you good at?
AF: I’m good at facilitating debate and discussion, and at solving problems with creativity. Much of what we do hasn’t been done before at our company or in our market. Being at the forefront of marketing and strategy requires building solutions—and I love tackling problems big and small in creative ways.
MB: What has been the most pivotal moment of your career?
AF: Interestingly, not getting a job was my turning point. I applied for an internal promotion but didn’t get it. That led to a connection with the hiring manager, who invited me to join their team in a different role—focused on audience work. It wasn’t what I initially planned, but it opened my horizons to the digital media ecosystem. That role became the foundation of what I do today.
MB: What was your very first job?
AF: My first-ever job was crushing oil barrels at my aunt and uncle’s recycling factory. I also worked as a telemarketer, which taught me how to debate quickly. My first career job after college was at Nielsen. It was a fantastic training ground in measurement and analytics, and it connected me with people and companies that remain important in my career today.
MB: What professional relationship has had the biggest impact on you?
AF: I’ve had many great mentors, but one in particular taught me the value of building teams and integrating soft skills with technical expertise. She helped me understand holistic business strategy and how to work across an organization. She also taught me empathy—reminding me that nobody wakes up wanting to do badly at their job. That perspective has been invaluable.
MB: Tell us who you are and what your role is today?
AF: I’m Adam Frazier, Head of U.S. Consumer Data Strategy and Governance at Unilever. My role is about building capabilities for marketers in audiences, measurement, CRM, and ensuring all of it is done ethically with privacy and governance in mind.
MB: What’s the biggest challenge in your role right now?
AF: The pace of change. There are endless new solutions, but many are technology-driven rather than business-driven. Technology should serve business strategy—not the other way around. Another challenge is the constantly evolving privacy and regulatory landscape. Marketers don’t always think about laws, so I spend time ensuring our tools are safe, compliant, and protect brand equity.
MB: What does an average day look like?
AF: Collaboration is at the center of my day. I meet with marketers, media experts, legal teams, vendors, and partners. I think of it as a three-legged stool: Unilever, agencies, and third-party partners. All three need to work together or the stool topples. My role often involves coordinating these groups to make sure we’re aligned and moving forward together.
MB: What advice would you give a startup brand about audience data?
AF: First, value the people who engage with your brand organically—they are treasures. Learn as much as you can from them. Second, use a diverse set of data sources—behavioral, purchase, engagement, demographics—because no single dataset is enough. And third, remember that precision doesn’t always mean small. Data-driven audiences can be much larger and more valuable than standard demographics.
MB: How important is first-party data today?
AF: Hugely important. It’s the backbone of what we know about consumers, but it’s always evolving. For us, it’s not just about marketing activation—it’s about insights. First-party data is like a massive consumer panel. It’s a gold mine that helps us engage better, innovate, and expand audiences.
MB: Where do you see AI changing data the most?
AF: Agentic AI is exciting. Instead of spending days building reports, I can prompt the system and get quick, usable visuals. It makes complex data more accessible to non-analysts. It democratizes analysis by letting people ask questions in plain English. It’s already saving time and improving decision-making, and the potential is massive.
MB: At 21, did you think you’d be doing this work today?
AF: Not at all. At 21, I probably dreamed of working in the front office of an NBA franchise. I knew I wanted to solve problems analytically, but marketing and data science wasn’t even on my radar. Falling into this space through research and insights ended up being the perfect fit. It combines analytical thinking with creativity and has kept me constantly learning. If you had told 21-year-old me that this would be my path, I wouldn’t have believed it—but I’m glad it worked out this way.
MB: What advice would you give to someone just starting out in marketing analytics?
AF: Don’t get caught up in precision at the expense of decisions. The goal is to make better marketing choices, not to calculate every number to the third decimal point. Think about data directionally: what’s better, what’s worse, and what can be optimized. Also, don’t ignore your gut—test your hypotheses and learn from them. Marketing analytics is about gaining knowledge through testing, not about achieving perfect methodology.
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